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Cinder Dies in Book Three Because Saying His Name No Longer Matters

plausible timeline · popularity 92 · 1 source thread

Bast panics when Kote speaks the Seven's names, but not when Cinder's name was used earlier, implying Cinder is dead.

About: Cinder

Also involves: The Chandrian, Haliax, Bast, Kvothe

The theory§

This theory holds that Cinder dies before the story's end, reasoning from a discrepancy in Bast's reactions in the frame. When Kote recounts the tale he learned from the Adem and speaks the Chandrian's names aloud, Bast reacts with alarm, and Kote reassures him that saying them once is safe. Yet earlier, when Kvothe relates how Haliax used Cinder's name against him after the slaughter of his troupe, Bast voices no concern. The inference is that speaking a dead Chandrian's name carries no danger of summoning him, so Cinder must die at some point in the tale. This dovetails with the broader reading that Kvothe himself kills Cinder and, since the Chandrian must number seven, is doomed to take Cinder's empty place among them, with silence as his sign.

Evidence§

  • When Kote speaks the Seven's names while recounting the story from the Adem, Bast freaks out. Kote says it's okay to say them once.
    OP's core observation: Bast alarmed when names spoken, Kote downplays the danger. — u/Consequence6
  • But it's not the first time we hear Cinder's name, Ferule. Haliax uses it against him after he kills Kvothe's troupe. But Bast doesn't say anything then.
    The discrepancy: no alarm when Cinder's name was used earlier in the troupe scene. — u/Consequence6
  • The only conclusion I can draw is that Ferule dies, and therefore calling his name doesn't matter.
    OP's inference: a dead Chandrian's name carries no danger, so Cinder dies. — u/Consequence6
  • Yes. Kvothe kills him and becomes a chandrian. … Chandrian means 7 of them, and we know from the shape of the story that Kvothe has to kill Cinder. But by definition there must be 7 of them.
    Extends theory: Kvothe kills Cinder and replaces him to keep seven. — u/FalconGK81
  • His sign is silence. That is why there is "of course no music". The third silence BELONGS to him.
    Adds frame evidence: silence as Kvothe's Chandrian sign. — u/FalconGK81
  • Note how Ferule's name is spelled when Haliax (Kote) uses it. "Ferula." … One could argue that since Kote is carefully avoiding using their true names, even by a small degree, it's because they're all still alive.
    CounterCounter: altered spellings suggest Kote avoids true names because all are alive. — u/Kit-Carson
  • Could also be that he is daring Cinder to come, knowing that he won't for some reason. … Or it could be that Cinder is imprisoned and unable to come when named (perhaps in the thrice-locked chest)
    CounterCounter: alternative explanations for the safe naming besides Cinder's death. — u/elburcho

Book refs: NOTW, WMF

Tier reasoning§

plausible correct: rests on an inference about why Bast reacts, with noted alternatives

Contributors§

Source threads§