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Cinder Did the Cthaeh a 'Bad Turn' by Using the Breaking Way Against It

fringe motive · popularity 58 · 1 source thread

The Cthaeh's phrase 'did me a bad turn' may mean Cinder used the breaking way to trap it, hinting Cinder is secretly good.

About: Cinder, The Cthaeh

Also involves: Auri, Shaping, Haliax, The Shaed

The theory§

When the Cthaeh remarks that 'maybe this Cinder did me a bad turn once,' this reading takes the word 'turn' to carry hidden magical weight rather than mere idiom. In The Slow Regard of Silent Things, Auri sets her world right by turning the gear Fulcrum widdershins, against the sun, the 'breaking way'; the theory proposes that Cinder may have worked a comparable breaking-way ritual against the Cthaeh's tree, foiling or trapping it, which would recast Cinder as a secret good agent. 'Turn' is repeatedly tied to 'shape' elsewhere: Elodin calls the shaed a 'turning cloak,' the chapter of Lanre's betrayal is titled 'Lanre Turned,' and 'How Old Holly Came to Be' uses 'turn' in place of 'shape.' A notable caution is the Cthaeh's choice of 'maybe': a being bound to speak only truth using such hedged language may be planting Cinder as a false common enemy to win Kvothe's trust, and 'doing someone a bad turn' is, after all, an ordinary archaic phrase.

Evidence§

  • while making her soap, Auri just righted the world by turning Fulcrum 'widdershins', the breaking way, against the turning of the sun
    Establishes the breaking-way precedent: turning widdershins sets the world right. — u/czechancestry
  • Consider: Cthaeh says, "Maybe this Cinder did me a bad turn once." … To do a bad turn... Well now -- that's a phrase that may bear magical significance
    Core claim: 'bad turn' may carry hidden magical weight, not just idiom. — u/czechancestry
  • Did Cinder do something to invoke the 'breaking way' against Cthaeh? Did he perhaps perform some ritual three times while walking Widdershins around the Cthaeh tree?
    Proposes Cinder worked a breaking-way ritual against the Cthaeh's tree. — u/czechancestry
  • If Cinder DID invoke the breaking way against Cthaeh, then, like Auri, did *he* set *something else* to rights? Is Cinder the good guy?
    Conclusion: a breaking-way act would recast Cinder as a secret good agent. — u/czechancestry
  • I think 'turn' = 'shape' in the books, and I think Cinder was part of the team that trapped Cthaeh. Elodin calls the shaed a 'turning cloak'. … In How Old Holly Came to be, the word 'turn' is directly used to replace the word 'shape'.
    Reinforces magical reading: 'turn' equals 'shape'; Cinder helped trap the Cthaeh. — u/chainsawx72
  • The story of Lanre 'turning,' against the empire is in a chapter titled 'Lanre Turned.' … Cinder is connected to the lore of the past and to Lanre and possibly Tehlu, known for his iron wheel.
    Ties 'turn' to Lanre's betrayal and Cinder's deep lore connections. — u/qoou
  • I always noted that Cthaeh says "maybe". As a being bound to tell the truth, it struck me as unusual to use such uncertain language … it's equally likely that Cthaeh is putting in Kvothe's mind that Cinder is a mutual enemy, for a totally different agenda, to give Kvothe more faith in Cthaeh's other points.
    CounterCounter: the hedged 'maybe' may be the Cthaeh planting a false common enemy. — u/JaSnarky
  • Doing someone a bad turn is a normal phrase though, if somewhat archaic today.
    CounterCounter: 'bad turn' is just an ordinary archaic idiom, no magic implied. — u/NoHopeOnlyDeath

Book refs: WMF, Slow Regard, NOTW

Tier reasoning§

fringe confirmed: builds on a pun reading of a single offhand line

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