KKC Theory Wiki

Cinder Is Already Dead, Killed by Kvothe Before the Frame Story

fringe timeline · popularity 163 · 1 source thread

Cinder's true name is spoken twice without consequence only because he is dead, killed by Kvothe before the inn narrative.

About: Cinder, Kvothe

Also involves: The Chandrian, Denna, The Adem, The Cthaeh, Folly, Arliden, Chronicler

The theory§

This theory contends that Cinder is already dead by the time of the frame narrative, slain by Kvothe, and that the proof lies in how often his name is spoken. The Adem teach that uttering a Chandrian's true name draws them: Arliden was killed because he sang the Chandrian's names so often he 'shone like a lighthouse'. Yet across the storytelling Cinder's name surfaces more than once within a day or two without any Chandrian descending, which the theory reads as possible only if that particular Chandrian can no longer answer the call. The Cthaeh's taunt that Kvothe will meet Cinder again supplies the future occasion for the killing, and Cinder's pale sword resembles Folly, the blade mounted in the Waystone Inn. A strong counter observes that Kvothe pointedly uses altered spellings, Ferula for Ferule and Scyphus for Cyphus, and tells Bast he has been careful not to use real names, which only makes sense if Cinder is still feared alive.

Evidence§

  • I think Cinder is already dead when Kvothe is telling his story, and I think Kvothe killed him.
    OP's core claim framing the theory — u/IamMyles
  • the Adym tell Kvothe the story with all of the true Chandrian names in it, including Cinder's true name, Ferula. They also say that the story can only be told once every 1000 days … if you say the true name of a Chandrian more than once without enough time in between, they can find and kill you. Which is why Kvothe's father was killed
    Mechanism: naming a Chandrian draws them, as with Kvothe's father — u/IamMyles
  • we hear Cinder's name called at the beginning of NOTW. No other Chandrian name is called more than once … the 2 instances of his true name being called are said within a day or two of each other. Far too close together to be safe from the Chandrian. Unless that particular member of the Chandrian is no longer alive.
    Key evidence: name spoken twice safely implies Cinder is dead — u/IamMyles
  • The Cthaeh did (kinda) say Kvothe will meet Cinder again. So, if we believe the creature in the tree, the opportunity to kill him will be there for our boy.
    Comment adds the future occasion for the killing — u/MrBoro
  • Another thing you can add to your theory it's Cinder's sword. If we see the description of it seems very similar to Folly, which is the sword he has in the Waystone Inn.
    Comment adds physical evidence: Cinder's sword resembles Folly — u/raulangelus
  • Bast did not freak out in book one when Ferula was named. Because Cinder is already dead.
    Comment adds: Bast's calm at the naming supports death — u/Imaterd005
  • Note that it's Kvothe saying the words through his storytelling and also note that Kvothe says to Bast, "... and that's why I've been careful not to use real names." In sum, Kvothe has gone out of his way to not use Cinder's real name. That would make sense if Cinder was still presumed to be alive.
    CounterCounter: altered spellings imply Cinder is still feared alive — u/Kit-Carson
  • if calling a name once is not bad, then calling twice shouldn't be life threatening either.
    CounterCounter: twice is not deadly, undermining the naming premise — u/Streambotnt

Book refs: NOTW, WMF

Tier reasoning§

tier downgraded: the in-text counter (altered spellings avoid true names) undercuts the premise

Contributors§

Source threads§