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The Cthaeh Didn't Influence Kvothe Because He Was Already Doomed

plausible motive · popularity 68 · 1 source thread

Seeing Kvothe was already going to fail maximally, the Cthaeh carefully said nothing that would alter his self-destructive course.

About: The Cthaeh, Kvothe

Also involves: Felurian, Denna, Bast

The theory§

This theory takes Felurian's verdict at face value: when she examines Kvothe after his encounter in the Cthaeh's tree, she finds him clear of its influence, and she is not mistaken. Because the Cthaeh sees all possible futures and is malevolent by design, it chooses its words to steer the world toward the greatest suffering. If Kvothe was already certain to cause maximal ruin on his own, the Cthaeh's safest course was to say nothing that might deflect him, leaving its touch undetectable precisely because no touch was needed. The counter-argument is that conversation alone is the weapon: Bast insists merely speaking with the Cthaeh is catastrophic, and Lanre and Jax both spoke with it before their stories ended in tragedy. The Cthaeh's words demonstrably linger in Kvothe, ringing in his ears when he sees Denna's bruises and explicitly driving his choice to follow Tempi toward the Stormwal.

Evidence§

  • Felurian examines him for the Cthaeh's influence, and finds him clear. I don't think she was mistaken.
    OP's premise: Felurian's clean verdict is reliable. — u/rockmodenick
  • The Cthaeh knows all possible futures, and looking at Kvothe, it saw that he was already going to screw up as much as was possible, and carefully avoided saying anything that would change that.
    OP's core argument: Kvothe was already maximally doomed, so no influence was needed. — u/rockmodenick
  • He didn't need to be influenced and the Cthaeh knew it and made sure he didn't.
    OP's conclusion: the Cthaeh deliberately left him untouched. — u/rockmodenick
  • What if the only way to talk to the Cthaeh, without getting killed, is if the Cthaeh CANNOT influence your future actions for the worst? The worst might happen, but the Cthaeh can say nothing that can make the most likely outcome even worse than what it sees.
    Refines theory: any slip could only reduce the desired worst outcome. — u/Budget_Strike_9908
  • I believe that Felurian checks to see if he has been bitten, and she clears him. But Bast is the one who thinks just speaking to it is dangerous.
    CounterCounter: Felurian only checks for a bite; speech itself is the weapon. — u/Katter
  • The old stories tells us that Jax and Lanre both spoke with the Cthaeh and we have reason to believe that their stories ended in a fair amount of tragedy. I take this to mean that the Cthaeh can do quite a bit of harm with words alone.
    CounterCounter: precedent of Jax and Lanre shows words alone cause ruin. — u/Katter
  • the Cthaes words have lingered with kvothe in regards to one thing in particular. Denna. He mentions the cthaes words ringing in his ear when he sees Dennas bruises.
    CounterCounter: the Cthaeh's words demonstrably linger and shape Kvothe re Denna. — u/ManofManyHills
  • there's at least one point on the page where the Cthaeh's words clearly influenced Kvothe. Speaking to Tempi after Tempi was recalled to Ademre
    CounterCounter: textual proof the Cthaeh's words drove Kvothe to follow Tempi. — u/aerojockey

Book refs: WMF

Tier reasoning§

plausible correct: distinct (opposite mechanism) from the engineered-tragedy theory; carries noted counters

Contributors§

Source threads§