KKC Theory Wiki

Denna's Mysterious Patron Is One of the Chandrian, Likely Cinder

plausible identity · popularity 503 · 1 source thread

Denna's elusive, secretive patron who commissions pro-Lanre songs is theorized to be a member of the Chandrian, most likely Cinder.

About: Denna, Cinder

Also involves: The Chandrian, Haliax

The theory§

Denna's unnamed and elusive patron, called Master Ash, is one of the Chandrian, most often named as Cinder. The patron trains Denna in Yllish knot-singing and commissions songs that recast Lanre as a sympathetic hero rather than the betrayer of Skarpi's account, which reads as a deliberate effort to rehabilitate Lanre, who is Haliax. The patron's secrecy, his control over Denna's artistic output, his beatings, and his apparent protection of her all suggest a power with a stake in Chandrian lore. Cinder draws the most support because cinder turns to ash, the moniker aligning suggestively with 'Master Ash'. That alignment is so on-the-nose that it may be a deliberate red herring, and being the most common reading on the subject, it invites suspicion that it is too obvious to be the answer; a frequent alternative is that the patron is Bredon, who is the Chandrian only if Bredon himself is Cinder.

Evidence§

  • I don't think that's a theory. I think its pretty likely from the text. … Thats what I thought was the answer. I didn't know we were still speculating about it.
    Frames the theory as strongly text-supported, near-consensus reading. — u/Doctor_Expendable
  • Yeah, it’s been a while since I read them but I remember it implying if not outright stating this pretty clearly.
    Recalls the text itself implying the patron's Chandrian link. — u/RugbyLock
  • I think it makes most sense if her patron is Cinder. But we shall see.
    Narrows the patron's identity to Cinder specifically. — u/Katter
  • cinder literally becomes to ash… the names almost make it seem *too* obvious
    Core wordplay evidence: cinder turns to ash, matching Master Ash. — u/lurytn
  • This one isn't explicitly arguing for Cinder as her patron, but is arguing that it can only be Bredon in the event that Bredon is actually Cinder. So it's a backhanded argument for Cinder, but it has some good textual support.
    Bredon alternative collapses into Cinder, with claimed textual support. — u/RedeemedbyX
  • I think her patron is either Baron Jakis or Bredon. And they *may* be the same person, but I'm not stuck on that.
    CounterCounter: names non-Chandrian candidates like Baron Jakis or Bredon. — u/garbage_goblin0513
  • to the point where I’m tempted believe it might be a red herring. Like, why would any smart person change their name to something so thematically similar to a previous moniker? Seems a bit on the nose
    CounterCounter: the Cinder/Ash match may be too obvious, a deliberate red herring. — u/lurytn
  • It’s probably the most common theory on this sub reddit, which is why I’m convinced it’s not true.
    CounterCounter: popularity of the theory is itself grounds for doubt. — u/SomeGuyNamedJohn12

Book refs: NOTW, WMF

Tier reasoning§

single page; tier plausible confirmed: circumstantial fit, not stated in books

Contributors§

Source threads§