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Folly Is Cinder's Sword and Adem Swords Are Made by Shaping

fringe identity · popularity 117 · 1 source thread

Folly is Cinder's pale sword, won by Kvothe, and Adem blades like Saicere were made by shaping living beings.

About: Folly, Cinder, Shaping

Also involves: Caesura, Kvothe, The Adem, The Cthaeh, Selitos, Iax, Haliax, Abenthy

The theory§

The Adem sword Folly, which hangs on the wall of the Waystone Inn, is here identified as the pale sword carried by Cinder during the troupe's murder, implying that Kvothe has killed Cinder and claimed his blade. The case rests on the matched descriptions: Cinder's sword is 'pale and elegant' and swallows the light of fire and setting sun, while Folly is described as a sword 'distilled' into its pure form. The theory extends this to the origin of the oldest Adem swords themselves, reading Saicere's history-book entry ('First came Chael, who shaped me in fire') and the grammarie definition of making a thing 'more of what it is' as evidence that blades like Saicere and Folly were created through shaping. The personification of these swords as 'her,' 'a lady,' and 'the name of God,' together with the ever-burning candles kept in the locked Adem sword hall, leads to the further speculation that the shaped swords were shaped from living beings. The theory finally folds this into a recurring pattern in which Iax, Lanre, and Kvothe are each led to 'folly,' Kvothe doomed to repeat Lanre's mistake because he never hears the cautionary song.

Evidence§

  • His sword was pale and elegant … His eyes were like his sword, and neither one reflected light of the fire or the setting sun.
    OP's baseline: Cinder's sword is pale and absorbs light rather than reflecting it. — u/chainsawx72
  • But when the light touched the sword there was no beginning to be seen. In fact, the light the sword reflected was dull, burnished, and ages old.
    Folly shares Cinder's sword's light-swallowing, cold quality, matching the two blades. — u/chainsawx72
  • I believe Kote has killed Cinder and gained his sword. Cthaeh leads Kvothe towards killing Cinder and Master Ash... and Master Ash is probably Cinder.
    OP's core claim: Kvothe killed Cinder and took Folly, his blade. — u/chainsawx72
  • Now imagine if someone could take a knife and make it be more of what a knife is. Make it the best knife.
    Grammarie/shaping defined as making a thing more of what it is, applied to swords. — u/chainsawx72
  • “First came Chael,” she read. “Who* ***shaped*** *me in fire for an unknown purpose. He carried me then cast me aside.”
    Saicere's history explicitly says it was shaped, supporting shaped-sword origin. — u/chainsawx72
  • These shaped swords are personified multiple times, called 'me' and 'her' and 'a lady' and compared to god. The Adem do not leave them in the dark.
    OP extends theory: personification plus ever-lit hall suggests swords shaped from living beings. — u/chainsawx72
  • Not even Pat could write a scene where someone is turned into a sword, and it not come off as anything other than ridiculous. … As you have noted Shaping involves making a thing into an improved variant of what it already was, as a person is not a weapon, I hope that is enough to work against this theory.
    CounterCounter: shaping improves what a thing already is, and a person isn't a weapon. — u/TacticalDo
  • what would your explanation be for the idea that Chandrian seem pretty terribly powerful… yet barkeep Kvothe *seems* to be considerably weaker than even wmf Kvothe, let alone any of the Chandrian we’ve seen
    CounterCounter to the Kvothe-is-Chandrian extension: barkeep Kvothe seems too weak. — u/Bradparsley25

Book refs: WMF, NOTW

Tier reasoning§

distinct theory; sword-color parallel suggestive but identity claim speculative, fringe holds

Contributors§

Source threads§