KKC Theory Wiki

Kvothe's Folly Was Killing Haliax, Not Cinder

fringe identity · popularity 317 · 1 source thread

Folly, Kvothe's dull gray sword, belonged to Haliax/Lanre, and Kvothe's great mistake was slaying him.

About: Folly, Haliax, Kvothe

Also involves: Cinder, The Chandrian, The Amyr, Abenthy, Selitos, Arliden's Lanre Song

The theory§

This theory reassigns the gray sword Folly that hangs on the wall of the Waystone Inn: rather than Cinder's blade, it is the ancient weapon of Lanre, taken by Kvothe after he found a way to kill the seemingly unkillable Haliax. Folly is described as dull gray and seeming to reflect no light, a fitting image for a blade as old as Lanre that has faded across centuries. In slaying Haliax, Kvothe would have severed the will that bound and restrained the other Chandrian, freeing them and triggering a war with a reawakened Amyr. Yet Selitos's curse made Haliax undying, so the theory speculates Haliax cannot stay dead and that whoever kills him risks becoming him; this would explain why Kvothe sealed away his old name and now constantly surrounds himself with light. Ben's inscription, 'Be wary of folly,' is read as a direct warning about this very act.

Evidence§

  • Folly seems to be a theme through the book when it comes to the Chandrian, specifically when we discuss the presence of Kvothe's sword in the current timeline. A dull gray sword that seemed not to reflect light. Many of us here in the sub assume that naturally, Kvothe killed Cinder and took his sword. But what if thats not it at all?
    OP sets up the reassignment of Folly away from Cinder — u/FenixVale
  • Kvothe found a way to kill a chandrian, but it wasn't Cinder. It was Haliax. A sword that reflects no light, dull gray and old as time, would fit well into the idea of the sword Lanre may have carried.
    Core claim: Folly is Lanre's/Haliax's blade — u/FenixVale
  • In slaying Haliax, Kvothe would have set free the other Chandrian, no longer guided and restricted by his will. They would go into the world and do as they wanted freely, and started a war with the long slept order Amyr.
    Consequence: killing Haliax frees the Chandrian and starts a war — u/FenixVale
  • as Selitos realized and Lanre had said, Haliax cannot die. He would return, eventually. Perhaps though, it is just that whomever killed him would be taken by him, and become Haliax himself. Kvothe locked away what once he was, changing his name and sealing it … Its why he seems to always have lights, to keep the shadows away.
    Explains name-sealing and lights as defense against becoming Haliax — u/FenixVale
  • The inscription from Ben in Rhetoric and Logic was: "Remember your father's song. Be wary of folly." The song was "Lanre", which was about Lanre and the Chandrian. I think it fits pretty well, nice write up.
    Ben's warning ties Folly to the song about Lanre — u/cracker--jack
  • I agree 100% Kvothe kills Haliax. But I don't think it's a slaying. … Kvothe stabbed Alleg and left him 'mortally wounded'. … Kvothe brands Alleg with the broken circle. … A broken circle has an ending. I think this is what Kvothe does to Alaxel. He mortally wounds him, making him mortal and breaking the circle.
    Refines: Kvothe makes Haliax mortal via the broken-circle parallel — u/qoou
  • It kibda makes sense with the mentions by the chronist in the start, he says something about the legends saying that they migth have a new chandrian sort of implying that people think he migth have taken the spot
    Adds: Chronicler's hint Kvothe may have become a Chandrian — u/__akkarin
  • The problem is that when Kvothe tells the rhyme of the Adem to Bast and Chronicler it’s made clear the Chandrian are still very much at large.
    CounterCounter: the Chandrian remain active, undercutting the kill — u/ptsq
  • I still think Cinder is the one dead Chandrian. When Kvothe was describing the seven killing his troupe he used Cinder's real name Ferula without a second thought … Cinder's name is said twice in two days, that'd be pretty reckless to do unless he's already dead.
    CounterCounter: name evidence points to Cinder, not Haliax, being dead — u/Pairot01

Book refs: NOTW, WMF

Tier reasoning§

tier verified: speculative chain of inferences, fringe holds

Contributors§

Source threads§