KKC Theory Wiki

Elodin Is Remmen, Lord of Twilight and the True Father of Bast

fringe identity · popularity 84 · 1 source thread

Master Elodin is secretly Remmen, the Fae lord who fathered Bast, having learned the Name of love from Felurian.

About: Elodin, Remmen, Bast

Also involves: Felurian, Kvothe, The Fae, Bredon

The theory§

This theory identifies Master Elodin as Remmen, the Lord of Twilight who rules the Telwyth Mael in the Fae, and casts him as the true father of Bast — reading 'Bast' as a shortened name rather than a slur for 'bastard.' The argument turns on Elodin asking Kvothe during his admissions interview about the seven words that will make a person love you, knowledge the theory traces to Felurian, who teaches Kvothe to perceive the ever-changing name of love; Elodin would know it because he too had been with Felurian. It further supposes that the events of the third day will entwine Kvothe and Elodin so closely that Elodin arranges for Kvothe to teach his son. Known canon supports a Fae connection — Elodin entered the Fae when young and is said to carry royal Fae blood — but the Pairs cards depict Remmen and Elodin as distinct figures, and the more favored alternative casts Lord Bredon as Remmen, given his estates in the north near the Eld, his reputed pagan rituals in those woods matching Remmen's card, and his mastery of Tak shared with Felurian.

Evidence§

  • The thought of Bast being short for bastard, and he fathered him while in the Fae sleeping with Felurian. That is just incorrect. Upon a re-read of chapter 107 of TWMF, I believe Elodin is Remmen.
    OP's core claim: rejects Kvothe-as-father, asserts Elodin is Remmen. — u/NRichYoSelf
  • The time Kvothe spent "learning" from Felurian in the Fae was not him learning how to be good at sex. … Felurian is showing him, the way to see and find the ever changing name of love. The seven words that you can say to make a woman love you.
    Reframes Felurian's lesson as the name of love and the seven words. — u/NRichYoSelf
  • When Kvothe is at the inn talking with Losi when he comes back from Felurian he tells her the seven words to make her love him, and in that moment she did.
    Evidence the seven words work, proving the lesson is real. — u/NRichYoSelf
  • Elodin asks Kvoth during admissions about the seven words you can say to make a woman love you. He knows because he has been with Felurian himself.
    Key inference: Elodin knows the seven words, so he too knew Felurian. — u/NRichYoSelf
  • I believe events in book three entwine Kvothe and Elodin further together than I had assumed and somehow Elodin arranges Kvothe to teach his son Bastas.
    OP's concluding speculation linking Elodin's fatherhood to teaching Bast. — u/NRichYoSelf
  • this is also great from the standpoint that P.R. has said that Elodin has been to the fae realm when young, and that he has royal fae blood.
    Supports Fae connection via authorial statement on Elodin's blood. — u/headnecklace
  • "Remmen" backwards is "Nemmer," which sort of sounds like "Namer." … Bast and Elodin sort of have similar physical charactaristics
    Adds wordplay and physical-resemblance support for the identification. — u/bosscantseethis
  • There exists an image of Remmen from the Pairs cards and an image of Elodin neither look alike. … Bast has never interjected when Elodin is mentioned.
    CounterCounter: card art shows distinct figures; Bast never reacts to Elodin. — u/TacticalDo
  • I've always suspected Lord Bredon was Remmen. Bredon's estates are in the north where the Eld is. The Eld is associated with the Fae
    CounterCounter: favors Bredon as Remmen due to Eld/Fae estate connection. — u/mayotte2048

Book refs: WMF ch 107, WMF ch 74, WMF ch 103

Tier reasoning§

tier holds: a speculative identity leap, undercut by the rival Bredon reading

Contributors§

Source threads§