KKC Theory WikiBredon, Cinder, and Denna's Patron Are All One Person
Bredon, Cinder, and Denna's abusive patron may be a single figure, with the Cthaeh's clues true but misleadingly literal.
Also involves: The Cthaeh, Vintas
The theory§
This theory collapses three figures into one, proposing that Bredon, Cinder, and Denna's mysterious patron Master Ash are a single person, and that the Cthaeh speaks of him truthfully but in a deliberately misleading way. The line 'He beats her, you know. Her patron. Not all the time, but often' is reread as Bredon defeating Denna at Tak rather than physically abusing her, in keeping with Bredon's insistence that Tak is not about winning but about playing a beautiful game. The Cthaeh's remark that 'Two days ago he used his walking stick. That was new' is aligned with Cinder taking an arrow through the thigh two days prior, after which a walking stick would be expected; supporting detail notes that Bredon uses the wolf-shaped head of his cane as the capstone when he plays Tak. Bredon's frequent travel near Vintas and rumours of pagan forest rituals further link him to the Fae and the Chandrian. Objections are sharp: Kvothe has met both Bredon and Cinder and would surely recognize one as the other; the Cthaeh calls a second meeting with Cinder a twice-in-a-lifetime chance, implying they are not constantly in contact; and Denna herself all but confirms ordinary physical beatings when she compares her patron's treatment to the University's hold on Kvothe.
Evidence§
I know there is a theory that Bredon is Denna’s patron, and still other theories that Cinder is Denna’s patron. I am wondering if they aren’t one and the same.
OP's core claim: Bredon, Cinder, and Denna's patron collapse into one figure. — u/pspattonI think the Cthaeh is telling Kvothe the truth, but in a very misleading way.
Framing premise: Cthaeh's clues are literally true but deliberately misleading. — u/pspatton“He beats her, you know. Her patron. Not all the time, but often.” … If Bredon is the patron, perhaps he is teaching Denna the beautiful game of Tak? … She’s getting better at Tak, but Bredon still mostly wins.
Rereads 'beats her' as Bredon defeating Denna at Tak, not abuse. — u/pspatton“Two days ago he used his walking stick. That was new.” … Two days ago, Cinder took an arrow through the thigh. … Two days ago, Denna’s patron used his walking stick, which was new for him.
Aligns the new walking stick with Cinder's recent thigh wound. — u/pspattonNote also that Bredon uses the wolf-shaped head of his cane (I presume it unscrews) as the capstone when he plays Tak. Using his walking stick.
Supporting detail: Bredon literally uses his walking stick at Tak. — u/AbacusWizardPersonally I think Bredon is one of the fae (Bast’s dad if I had to guess); he knows tak and the only other person we know who plays the game is Felurian, he uses a lot of the same phrases that only bast or felurian have used, and theres rumours of him doing fae rituals or whatever
Refines link: Bredon's Fae traits and ritual rumours tie him to the supernatural. — u/ChichenwinMy problem with it is that the cthaeh also says coming across cinder again is a twice in a lifetime opportunity. Which means he can only meet Cinder once more.
CounterCounter: twice-in-a-lifetime implies they aren't in constant contact. — u/ChichenwinBut kvothe has seen both bredon and cinder - wouldn't he have recognized him?
CounterCounter: Kvothe met both and should recognize one as the other. — u/moonstonecrackDenna guides him to the realization that the University performs essentially the same function for him … and has done exactly the same thing (beating him) … she all but admits to the abuse in such a way that precludes its being anything BUT physical.
CounterCounter: Denna's own comparison implies literal physical beatings. — u/taborlyn13
Book refs: WMF
Tier reasoning§
tier confirmed: speculative reinterpretation of Cthaeh's words is fringe
Contributors§
- u/AbacusWizard — extended · 21 pts
- u/Chichenwin — countered · 9 pts
- u/OlomertIV — countered · 3 pts