KKC Theory Wiki

Bredon Isn't Cinder, But If a Chandrian He Could Be Haliax

plausible identity · popularity 72 · 1 source thread

Bredon's calm, game-playing nature contradicts Cinder's cruelty, suggesting he is Haliax rather than Cinder.

About: Bredon, Haliax, Cinder

Also involves: Denna, The Chandrian, The Amyr, The Cthaeh, Kvothe, Maer Lerand Alveron

The theory§

This theory rejects the common identification of the Vintish courtier Bredon with the Chandrian Cinder, arguing the two temperaments are incompatible. In Kvothe's only certain encounter with Cinder, at the slaughter of his troupe, Cinder is cruel, vindictive, and reckless, and visibly subservient to the shadow-shrouded Haliax. Bredon, by contrast, is composed, courteous, and devoted to playing 'a beautiful game' in both tak and the politics of Severen. If Bredon is a Chandrian at all, his patient, purpose-driven nature better matches Haliax, who is presented as a stern figure pursuing a vast end rather than indulging in casual cruelty. A further objection draws on the Cthaeh's claim that Kvothe's reunion with Cinder at the bandit camp was a 'twice-in-a-lifetime' opportunity: this cannot be true if Kvothe has spent that same period playing tak across the board from a disguised Cinder.

Evidence§

  • Bredon probably isn't Cinder. I know it's a pretty common theory that Bredon = Denna's patron = Cinder, but this doesn't add up for me.
    OP's core claim rejecting the Bredon-equals-Cinder identification. — u/Goober329
  • In our one definite encounter with Cinder … we see his personality as cruel, vindictive, and maybe a little wreckless. Also, he's weak and subservient toward Haliax. Bredon, on the other hand, is all about playing a beautiful game both in tak and in real life. That's not what we've seen in Cinder.
    Core argument: Cinder's cruelty contradicts Bredon's composed, game-playing nature. — u/Goober329
  • If Bredon does happen to be a Chandrian, I think he may actually be Haliax himself. Haliax seems purpose driven and appears to be doing distasteful things for a larger end goal. Sounds like a well thought out plan (a beautiful game) to me.
    OP's alternative: Bredon's purpose-driven planning better fits Haliax. — u/Goober329
  • In my last reread Bredon seems too human and kind to be Cinder. He shows genuine sorrow when Kvothe tells him of his falling out with Alveron. … Bredon is also a known member of the Vintas court so he could not be busy massacring and plotting with the Chandrian at the same time.
    Adds evidence: Bredon's kindness and court presence argue against Cinder. — u/TheChaosPaladin
  • The Cthaeh also says: “Still, you must admit you’ve had quite a piece of luck. I’d say it was a twice-in-a-lifetime opportunity meeting up with him again. Pity you wasted it. … This statement can't be true if Kvothe has been playing lots of games of Tak across from (a disguised) Cinder.
    Cthaeh's twice-in-a-lifetime line refutes Kvothe playing tak with disguised Cinder. — u/LostInStories222
  • When Cinder encounters Kvothe as a child he toys with him, his little cruelties are a game to him. … The line about 'playing a beautiful game' and setting traps is why I think Bredon will likely be Cinder
    CounterCounter: Cinder's cruelties are themselves a game, fitting Bredon. — u/TacticalDo
  • as soon as Kvothe gets eyes on the "Bandit Leader", he has this sense of dread and unease, and gets the feeling he has seen the man before. the Cthae reveals later that that was Cinder. … why wouldn't Kvothe get any of the same feelings from Bredon?
    Supports: Kvothe felt dread at Cinder but not Bredon, so they differ. — u/GuardianMjolnir
  • The way Haliax is presented in that very scene of the Troupe's killing he seems like he doesn't find cruelty or torment fun at all. … Denna's patron abuses her as a game and generally seems very different than how haliax is portrayed
    CounterCounter: Denna's abusive patron matches neither Haliax's sternness, weakening Bredon-as-Haliax. — u/mEtil56

Book refs: WMF

Tier reasoning§

tier confirmed: reasonable character fit, positive ID still speculative

Contributors§

Source threads§