KKC Theory Wiki

Cinder, as Master Ash, Secretly Works Against the Chandrian

fringe identity · popularity 62 · 1 source thread

Cinder posing as Master Ash may be sabotaging the Chandrian, possibly because he is really Selitos upholding Haliax's curse.

About: Cinder, Master Ash, The Chandrian

Also involves: Denna, Haliax, Selitos, Arliden's Lanre Song, Trebon

The theory§

This theory accepts the common identification of Master Ash with Cinder, resting on the synonymy of cinder and ash, and asks why such a figure would have Denna at the Mauthen farm in Trebon writing the song of Lanre and Lyra. The Chandrian are known to seek out and destroy songs, stories, and references to themselves, and Kvothe's own troupe was slaughtered for performing exactly such a song. Master Ash's interest in spreading that song therefore appears to cut directly against the Chandrian's purpose. From this contradiction the theory proposes that Cinder, behind the Master Ash guise, secretly works against the Chandrian and wishes them to remain cursed by their names forever, and in its boldest form suggests Cinder is in fact Selitos, maintaining the punishment he laid on Lanre. A competing reading holds the opposite: that Denna's song is a deliberate Chandrian misdirection, muddying the truth of who they really are rather than exposing it.

Evidence§

  • I accept the widely held belief that he could be Cinder. I also accept that the Chandrian seem to be seeking out and destroying information about themselves or references to themselves.
    Sets up the premise: Master Ash is Cinder, and Chandrian destroy references to themselves. — u/quacks_echo
  • But why, then, did Master Ash want Denna at the Mauthen farm in Trebon? Why does he want her to write the song of Lanre and Lyra, if Kvothe’s troupe were killed for doing exactly that?
    Core contradiction: Master Ash spreading the very song the Chandrian kill for. — u/quacks_echo
  • My theory is that Cinder, under the guise of Master Ash, is secretly working against the purpose of the Chandrian. He, for whatever reason, wants the Chandrian to fail and be cursed by their names forever.
    The central claim resolving the contradiction. — u/quacks_echo
  • My theory, tinfoil hat though it may be, is that Cinder is Selitos, working to maintain the punishment of Lanre / Haliax.
    Boldest form: Cinder is Selitos upholding the curse. — u/quacks_echo
  • I think the cinder and master ash thing is correct because of kvothes ability to name - cinder and ash are synonyms after all
    Supports the Cinder/Master Ash identification via synonymy. — u/caseydkeenum8
  • I think they all broke a promise that they swore, three times, just like Kvothe broke his promise to Denna, which points directly to Master Ash bring Cinder.
    Adds parallel evidence tying Master Ash to Cinder via broken promises. — u/MeleeCleric
  • Cinder can’t be Selitos. Lanre/Haliax knows Cinder’s true name, so there would be no fooling him there - Haliax knows him to his deepest core - deeper than he knows himself.
    CounterCounters the Selitos identification: Haliax knows Cinder's true name. — u/mythmaker007
  • I think Dennas song is supposed to be a misdirection but the chandrian. That’s why it is different from Kvothes version because if it took off it would muddy the water about who the chandrian really are
    CounterCounter-reading: the song serves Chandrian misdirection, not opposition. — u/arrobi

Book refs: NOTW, WMF

Tier reasoning§

distinct theory; fringe fits the speculative Cinder=Selitos leap

Contributors§

Source threads§