KKC Theory Wiki

Cinder Used the Eld Bandit Raids to Lure Kvothe Into Freeing the Cthaeh

fringe motive · popularity 161 · 1 source thread

Cinder's banditry was bait to draw forces that would clear the Sithe guards, and Kvothe's sympathy unleashed the Cthaeh.

About: Cinder, The Cthaeh, Kvothe

Also involves: Sympathy, The Fae, The Moon, Felurian, Maer Lerand Alveron

The theory§

Built on the Hermetic principle of correspondence, 'as above, so below', this theory holds that Cinder's bandit raids in the Eld were bait engineered to free the Cthaeh. The Cthaeh's tree is normally guarded by the Sithe, who slay anyone who approaches from half a mile off with long horn bows; the puzzle is why it stood unguarded when Kvothe reached it after leaving Felurian. The bandit camp Kvothe destroys is built around a single towering tree ringed by guards with bows, a mortal-world mirror of the Cthaeh's tree and its Sithe sentries, only a day or two's travel from where he meets Felurian. By staging this correspondence and binding the lightning of a storm to the camp's oak, Cinder could have shattered the Cthaeh's lightning tree through Kvothe's malfeasance, drawing off the Sithe and freeing the Cthaeh. The frame's mention of Bast's tale 'The Lightning Tree' and the importance the narrative places on the camp scene lend it weight, and it would explain why Cinder would bother robbing the Maer's tax collectors at all.

Evidence§

  • “As above, so below!” I shouted, making a joke only someone from the University could hope to understand. … It is also sometimes referred to as the principle of correspondence … In magical theory it one basis for why sympathetic magic (known as sympathy in KKC) works.
    OP grounds theory in the Hermetic correspondence principle underlying sympathy. — u/Zhorangi
  • there must certainly be some correspondence between the mortal and Fae realms. … We might guess that correspondence is strongest in areas where it is easy to cross from one to other, such as in the Eld.
    Establishes mortal-Fae correspondence is strongest in the Eld, where events occur. — u/Zhorangi
  • The trunk of a towering oak tree rose like a pillar in the center of the bowl, sheltering the camp with its huge branches. … A camp around a distinctive tree.. Surround by guards with bows. Within a day or two's travel from where Kvothe meets Felurian.
    First mirror: bandit camp is a distinctive tree ringed by archers near Felurian. — u/Zhorangi
  • If anyone manages to come in contact with the Cthaeh, the Sithe kill them. They kill them from a half-mile off with their long horn bows … And another distinctive tree.. One that is SUPPOSED to be surrounding by guards with bows.. Within a comfortable traveling distance from Felurian's glade.
    Second mirror: Cthaeh's tree should be guarded by Sithe archers, matching the camp. — u/Zhorangi
  • Kvothe's powerful sympathy that day below echoed in the Fae above. The painful truth is Kvothe was lured and tricked by Cinder. Cinder had carefully created a giant living mommet and combined his sympathy with Kvothe's malfeasance killing the guards that should have protected the Ctheah … Shattering the lightning tree, and unleashing the Ctheah from the tree it had been trapped inside.
    Core claim: Cinder's mommet plus Kvothe's sympathy freed the Cthaeh by killing the Sithe. — u/Zhorangi
  • that Cinder was using the raids as bait for the Maer and WHOEVER he sent, to clear the scythe from the tree
    Comment reframes the raids as deliberate bait to draw forces clearing the guards. — u/soupreme
  • Goes a long way in explaining why Cinder would be spending time ripping off the Maer. Also, lightning and trees? Always thought there was something there with the importance of that scene in the book, and Bast's story literally being called The Lightning Tree.
    Supports motive and notes the lightning/tree and 'The Lightning Tree' resonance. — u/PateraAll
  • But it feels weird if Kvothe's lightning *actually* shattered the Cthaeh's tree. I always assumed that "As above, so below" was a sort of storytelling thing, where we see lots of parallels and in particular inversions, but not as though magic is actually affecting both sides. At least we aren't shown any other instances of that kind of thing
    CounterCounter: parallels may be narrative mirroring, not literal cross-realm magic. — u/Katter
  • It's probably not true. Haliax says he keeps Cinder safe from the Sithe. Is it possible the leader wasn't Cinder? Kvothe thinks their leader is Cinder, but could he be wrong?
    CounterCounter: questions whether the camp leader was even Cinder. — u/chainsawx72

Book refs: WMF

Tier reasoning§

no change; self-described tinfoil, fringe is correct

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