KKC Theory Wiki

The Amyr Were the True Enemy of the Ergen Empire All Along

plausible identity · popularity 58 · 1 source thread

The 'enemy' of the old stories is the Amyr, not the Chandrian, and they helped bring down the empires.

About: The Amyr, The Creation War

Also involves: The Doors of Stone, The Chandrian, The Cthaeh, Maer Lerand Alveron, Haliax, Selitos, The Lethani, Myr Tariniel, The Duke of Gibea

The theory§

This theory reframes the Amyr as the true villains of Creation War mythology, holding that the 'enemy' set beyond the Doors of Stone refers to them rather than to the Chandrian. It leans on the consistent menace attached to the order: Nina's commissioned painting depicts a Ciridae so terrible she cannot bear to look at it, the church is said to have distanced itself from the Amyr because 'they did some terrible things toward the end,' and the genocidal Duke of Gibea is exposed as a secret Amyr atop pits holding the bones of twenty thousand women and children. The reasoning extends to Lanre, read as a Ciridae who 'cleansed' Myr Tariniel through clever trickery, and to the order's founder Selitos, since Selitos names the survivors Amyr in memory of the ruined city ('A-myr,' those without Myr Tariniel). The Amyr's creed of pursuing the greater good 'beyond good and evil' lets even monstrous acts be rationalized, so the order need not be heroes to history's losers. A common refinement insists there are no good guys at all: both Amyr and Chandrian are 'bad,' working toward ends that left the empire ruined.

Evidence§

  • The 'enemy' of the empire in the stories is the Amyr. We all know this on some level. We are being told, and not very subtly, that the Amyr were pretty bad.
    OP's core thesis: the stories' 'enemy' is the Amyr, not the Chandrian. — u/qoou
  • This man was one of the Amyr. One of the Ciridae. … I don't like looking at him even now,” she said. “They were all awful to look at. But he was the worst.
    Nina's painting shows a Ciridae more terrible than the Chandrian. — u/qoou
  • It could be the church trying to distance itself from the Amyr. **They did some terrible things toward the end**.
    The church distanced itself from the Amyr for their terrible deeds. — u/qoou
  • When the Amyr moved against the duke, they found the bones of twenty thousand people. … the point,” I whispered excitedly, “is that Gibea was a secret member of the Order Amyr.
    The genocidal Duke of Gibea was secretly an Amyr. — u/qoou
  • no church, no court, no king could move against him. … trusting all he did was in the service of the greater good.
    Ciridae were above the law, free to rationalize monstrous acts as greater good. — u/qoou
  • The enemy in the lore stories was set beyond doors of stone. … And Cthaeh tells us of the Maer leading to the Amyr's door.
    'Enemy beyond doors of stone' plus Cthaeh's Maer hint point to the Amyr. — u/qoou
  • Ivare enim euge. … Toward great good
    The Amyr motto hides 'enem'/enemy and 'great good' word-play. — u/qoou
  • you put a ton of quotes in only to ignore that Selitos explicitly names them the Amyr because Myr Tareniel is gone. … I agree with much of what you said but don't think the Amyr attacked Myr Tarieniel
    CounterCounter: Selitos named them Amyr in memory of the lost city, so they didn't destroy it. — u/AnotherDrZoidberg
  • It cant be that all Amyr were bad people and enemies. Those who forgot the lethany were traitors, meaning that the rest of the Amyr were good persons or the opposite.
    CounterCounter: not all Amyr can be the enemy; only the traitors forgot the Lethani. — u/MikeMaxM
  • The main idea here is "There are no GOOD guys". BOTH Amyr and Chandrian are "bad"
    Refinement: no good guys at all; both orders are bad. — u/Charlie24601

Book refs: NOTW, WMF

Tier reasoning§

tier verified: substantial converging textual evidence supports plausible

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