KKC Theory Wiki

Bredon Is Simply Bredon, Not Cinder or a Chandrian

plausible identity · popularity 88 · 1 source thread

A counter-theory: Bredon is an ordinary noble and plot device, not Cinder, Master Ash, or a Chandrian.

About: Bredon, Cinder, Master Ash

Also involves: The Chandrian, Haliax, Denna, Maer Lerand Alveron, Dagon, Kvothe, Felurian

The theory§

Against the popular claim that Bredon is Cinder or Master Ash in disguise, this counter-theory holds that Bredon is exactly what he appears to be: an aging, courteous noble who teaches Kvothe Tak and the workings of the Maer's court. Cinder is too impatient to cultivate a genuine friendship, and Haliax, who orders Cinder to put the boy to sleep quickly rather than prolong his agony, would never sanction a slow scheme to befriend and unmake Kvothe. The Bredon-as-Master-Ash case rests on his walking stick, his unexplained absences, and the 'pagan frolics' court gossip attributes to him, but these read as coincidence serving the story rather than concealment, and Kvothe, freshly returned from Felurian, would recognize a glamour or Cinder's distinctive way of moving across a Tak board. If a villain lurks near the Maer, the colder candidate is Dagon, whose dead-eyed menace makes Kvothe's street instincts scream to run. Bredon functions primarily as an information-dump device, the means by which Kvothe and the reader learn the rules of Severen.

Evidence§

  • I am about 95% certain that Bredon is not some evil mastermind. One of the most important things to Kvothe on their first meeting is that Bredon gives him an honest smile, which he can't help but return
    OP's core claim: Bredon's honest first impression argues against him being a villain. — u/Important_Basis417
  • Cinder, while he could probably disguise himself, is far too impatient to build up a real friendship with Kvothe, presumably just to tear him down. Also, I am pretty sure Haliax would not approve … He makes a point of not wanting to prolong Kvothes confiusion/agony, when he commands Cinder to kill him quickly.
    Cinder is too impatient and Haliax would not sanction a slow befriending scheme. — u/Important_Basis417
  • The cane argument frankly seems ridiculous to me. … If that were a valid argument any elderly noble could be Dennas patron. Also, one does not have to "wear " a cane to own and beat girls with one.
    Rebuts the Master Ash cane evidence as coincidence applicable to any noble. — u/Important_Basis417
  • His absence exactly within the same time frame as Denna, I will admit, is a bit suspicious. It is still circumstantial and I still think it is merely for story-telling reasons … but I can't really disprove it in any meaningful way.
    OP concedes the matching absences are suspicious but circumstantial. — u/Important_Basis417
  • I tend to agree. I think Bredon was an info-dump plot device. Rothfuss needed a way for Kvothe (and the readers) to learn all about this new place. Enter Bredon.
    Supports OP: Bredon's narrative role is exposition, not concealment. — u/LNinefingers
  • But if we're looking for a baddie close to the Maer, I think it's FAAAAARRRR more likely to be Dagon. … When his eyes touched me, all the deep feral instincts that had kept me alive on the streets of Tarbean told me to run.
    Offers Dagon as the colder villain candidate near the Maer. — u/LNinefingers
  • I agree, I can't see kvothe not recognising a glamour, especially after his time with felurian. Bredon is not cinder.
    Post-Felurian Kvothe would detect a glamour, so Bredon isn't a disguised Cinder. — u/claxtong49
  • I agree in that I do not think Bredon is Cinder. I do think he's master Ash though … The walking stick, his absences, plus his "pagan frolics" Kvothe read about in court gossip … I think it's too big a coincidence for Ash to be anyone else.
    CounterCounter: stacked coincidences point to Bredon being Master Ash. — u/Awful_Falafel20
  • Also don’t forget he said he recently took up dancing and Denna said Master Ash was a surprisingly good dancer
    CounterCounter: Bredon's new dancing habit matches Denna's description of Master Ash. — u/playnbagpipesonatank

Book refs: WMF, WMF ch 10, WMF ch 57

Tier reasoning§

tier kept: reasonable null-hypothesis counter-reading

Contributors§

Source threads§