KKC Theory Wiki

Cinder, Not Bredon, Is Denna's Mysterious Patron Master Ash

plausible identity · popularity 371 · 3 source threads

Denna's abusive patron 'Master Ash' is the Chandrian Cinder, betrayed by his winter chill, white hair, and deep name 'Ferule'.

About: Master Ash, Cinder, Denna

Also involves: The Cthaeh, Kvothe, The Chandrian, Vashet, Trebon, Naming, The Fishery, Bredon

The theory§

This theory holds that Denna's secretive patron, known to her only as 'Master Ash', is the Chandrian Cinder, with the Vintish noble Bredon planted as a red herring. The keystone is Cinder's true name, Ferule (rendered Ferula in the ambush account), which derives from the Latin term for a hollow rod used both as a walking stick and an instrument of corporal punishment. The Cthaeh reports that Denna's patron beats her and 'two days ago he used his walking stick', collapsing the etymology onto the act. While guessing the patron's name half-asleep, Kvothe brushes against the deep name itself, rambling 'Feran. Forue. Fordale', and 'Ash' is itself another word for cinder. Cinder's Chandrian sign is winter's chill: he is 'a creature of winter's pale', cold and white, and the bone-tar canister at the Fishery froze and shattered the same day Denna first met her patron, plausibly Cinder's nearby presence cooling it past its breaking point. Denna is framed throughout as a mirror of Kvothe, equally gifted in song and quick study, possibly recruited as bait or interference. Counter-arguments note the Cthaeh speaks in misleading half-truths, that it is never confirmed the patron rather than Cinder personally inflicted the bruises, and that Cinder was elsewhere stealing from the Maer.

Evidence§

  • Cinder's true name is *Ferula/Ferule*, as it shows in the Adem's song and is how Haliax reffered to him when Chandrian killed Kvothe's parents.
    Establishes Cinder's deep name Ferule, the etymological keystone of the theory. — u/TeccamTheTurtle
  • The Romans called the hollow light rod made from this plant a *ferula* … Such rods were used for **walking sticks**, splints, for stirring boiling liquids, and **for** **corporal punishment**.
    Ferula means a rod used as walking stick and for punishment, linking name to abuse. — u/TeccamTheTurtle
  • **He beats her**, you know. Her patron. … “Two days ago he used his **walking stick**.
    Cthaeh quote ties Denna's patron to the walking-stick beating, collapsing onto Ferule's meaning. — u/TeccamTheTurtle
  • the one that happened because Kvothe couldn't meet her due to the bone-tar canister becoming too cold possible because of Cinder's nearby presence. His Chandrian sign, the thing that is hardest for him to mask, is "winters chill" … He was a creature of **winter’s pale**. Everything about him was cold and sharp and white.
    Frozen canister at first patron meeting attributed to Cinder's winter-chill sign. — u/TheLastSock
  • It happened the same day she first met Master Ash.
    Corroborates the bone-tar freezing coincided with Denna meeting her patron. — u/EyolfTheWanderer
  • When Kvothe tries to name her Patron, his sleeping mind nearly stumbles across his deep name (ferule). … Federick the Flippant. Frank. **Fe**ran. Fo **ru**e. Forda**le**….”
    Kvothe's half-asleep rambling brushes the syllables of Ferule while guessing the patron. — u/TheLastSock
  • Not to mention Cinder is another word for ASH
    The patron's name 'Ash' is a synonym for cinder, linking the alias to Cinder. — u/Damnitkial
  • The big argument against cinder that I cant get passed is how was cinder 3 span away stealing from the mear while also "swimming in his circles".
    CounterCounter: Cinder was elsewhere stealing from the Maer, conflicting with the patron timeline. — u/russellzerotohero
  • It is easy to interpret the Cthae's words as Denna's patron hurting her. The Cthae can't like, but it can be tricky. … the Cthae doesn't say that she got them from her patron.
    CounterCounter: the Cthaeh's misleading half-truths mean the patron may not be the abuser. — u/roseinapuddle

Book refs: NOTW, WMF

Tier reasoning§

single distinct theory; tier 'plausible' correct - strong circumstantial/linguistic evidence but not book-stated and partly disputed

Contributors§

Source threads§