KKC Theory Wiki

Kvothe Killed Cinder, Not the Poet King, in That Vintish Street

fringe identity · popularity 77 · 1 source thread

The man Kvothe famously kills in a Vintas street is Cinder, whose destruction left the cobblestones permanently broken.

About: Kvothe, Cinder

Also involves: Denna, The Chandrian, The Cthaeh, Vintas, Naming, Ambrose Jakis, Maer Lerand Alveron, Shehyn, Alaitis

The theory§

The killing Kvothe alludes to in a Vintish street, conventionally read as the death of the 'poet king,' is here argued to be the slaying of Cinder. The reasoning holds that unmaking a Chandrian would require a Name called to destroy, and that such an act could permanently shatter the cobblestones where it occurred. Because Cinder is taken to be Denna's patron Master Ash, and thus a figure of standing in the Vintish courts, his death by a man known to enjoy the Maer's favor could precipitate the political upheaval and feud with the Jakis line that surrounds Kvothe's exile. The strongest internal support offered is that Kvothe freely speaks Cinder's name Ferula many times throughout his narration while scrupulously refusing to name the other Chandrian, suggesting Cinder no longer poses the danger that Naming the living seven would invite. The competing reading is Vashet's 'poet king' from the Small Kingdoms, reinforced by Caesura, a sword named for a break in an Eld Vintish line, pointing instead at Roderic Calanthis.

Evidence§

  • Broken cobblestones where he "killed him" - a name was called to destroy, destruction at this level could leave a location as permanently damaged - the only way to destroy/unmake a chandrian?
    OP's first pillar: only unmaking a Chandrian could permanently shatter the cobblestones. — u/soupreme
  • If Cinder is Dennas patron, he is also at court in Vintas. The killing of a senior person in the vintish courts by a man known to be in the favour of the maer could precipitate a war. Especially with the Jackiss influence.
    OP's second pillar: Cinder as Denna's patron, his death sparks the political feud. — u/soupreme
  • Everythign the Cthaeh tells him builds on his passion to hunt and kill both cinder and dennas patron ( presumably the same person)
    OP's third pillar: the Cthaeh stokes Kvothe toward killing Cinder/the patron. — u/soupreme
  • I think the best evidence he killed Cinder is the fact that refuses to name the 7 until that one point in WMF where Shehyn tells him of their signs, but he names Ferula numerous times throughout the narrative.
    Strongest added support: Kvothe freely names Ferula but not the living seven. — u/DarkCloud_390
  • the most accepted theory is that it is indeed cinder, although due to the implication that the Chandran are still alive when Kvothe is telling his story to the chronicler, it's hard to determine if he truly killed cinder or not.
    CounterRefines and counters: patron-is-Cinder is popular, but Chandrian seem alive in the present. — u/Luxypeus
  • THERE IS NO EVIDENCE DENNA'S PATRON IS AT COURT IN VINTAS. Only that he was in Vintas, and that Denna thinks he is a noble by his clothes, wealth, and manner.
    CounterCounters OP's pillar 2: patron was in Vintas but not necessarily at court. — u/Imaterd005
  • Let's also remember that Ambrose is constantly described to be a poet. … This could lead to Ambrose's father gaining power over the south and therefore becoming a King, wich would then lead to his dead
    CounterRival reading: the killing is the 'poet king', tied to Ambrose's line, not Cinder. — u/Luxypeus

Book refs: WMF

Tier reasoning§

tier kept: speculative identity leap with thin support

Contributors§

Source threads§